Leadership in Black and White is a weekly podcast hosted by John Siebeling and Wayne Francis. John and Wayne talk to leaders about how to lead in the gray areas of life as well as discuss topics like church, race, current events, and more.

A White pastor and a Black pastor, close friends who have each built racially diverse congregations, offer a model Christians can follow to open necessary conversations about race, encourage unity, and foster mutual respect to heal a wounded nation riven by racial tension and political tribalism.

For years, pastors John Siebeling and Wayne Francis have led thriving congregations that are the embodiment of diversity, Siebeling in Memphis and Francis in New York City. Many churches and leaders have sought their counsel, hoping to emulate their success.

At the height of the Black Lives Matter protests in summer 2020, they pooled their insights and experiences to help others facilitate conversations about racism. The guide they developed is the basis of God and Race.

Many Christian books on race either do not ask the hard questions or, if they do, speak as critics outside the mainstream church. Siebeling and Francis probe the meaning of racial reconciliation and reveal how the church can be a positive and effective leader to move us forward, beyond hate and injustice, to equality and love.